Suggestion to make this forum active

[MichelB]

Hello Richard,
I nearly missed your information about this new forum at Retouchpro. I think you should add the link in your hiddenelements 'forums' questions, and perhaps say something about it in your blog?
The title 'Layers for Elements Users' means this forum is open to Elements users wanting to discuss layers questions even if they don't have the book (yet) ?
I feel that this forum may be an excellent media for intermediate to advanced Elements users who feel somewhat frustrated by the lack of certain features in Elements and the unwillingness of editors about issuing an Elements version of the layer book.
I have the book and find that most of it is applicable to Elements. As a proof, the final exercice can be done in Elements with the exception of the 'blend if' layers which should be replaced by normal layers plus masks.
For those who don't have the book yet, but have the 'hiddenelements' books, this forum can be of much help.

MichelB

[Richard Lynch]

Actually, if I can find an audience of Elements users who are interested on this forum, I think I can make Blend If tools that would satisfy the needs, and/or discuss specific work-arounds. I have been frustrated in trying to find the Elements audience, as those places where they are most likely to be (Adobe's forums) i am not allowed to talk about the solutions I have!

I look forward to more discussion here. And certainly I plan to say more in my blog and other places to enhance traffic over time.

Thanks for posting!

[cybersparkle]

Actually, if I can find an audience of Elements users who are interested on this forum, I think I can make Blend If tools that would satisfy the needs, and/or discuss specific work-arounds. I have been frustrated in trying to find the Elements audience, as those places where they are most likely to be (Adobe's forums) i am not allowed to talk about the solutions I have!

I look forward to more discussion here. And certainly I plan to say more in my blog and other places to enhance traffic over time.

Thanks for posting!

Hi there Richard and Michel!

I purchased Hidden Power of PSE 4 some time ago and wish it had been one of the first books I purchased on PSE. I am an avid "forum" person in life as a whole, if I have a question- I first go to the internet & will join the appropriate forum and usually get the help I am looking for. I eventually plan to make a living with digital art I feel it will help me take years off a the learning curve to have a forum for layers and PSE. I have stood in Barnes & Noble looking longinly and sadly at photoshop layers books, just wishing I could use them with elements and knowing I dont have the expertise or know how to make it apply to PSE. The closest I have found was a book called "combining images with photoshop elements: selecting, layering, masking and compositing" by Ted LoCascio. However, with all due respect to Mr.LoCascio- I dont feel the book was anywhere near as thourough as Hidden Power. Plus, more importantly- there was no forum where I could ask questions about that book.
I think there are sooo many people that feel like me and if you published a book (how about an online independent PDF version?) I would absolutely buy it and gladly pay more than for a book! I am willing to be a member of any forum u lead or support- I think many others feel the same way too. I read between the lines and figured you may have difficulty with things because of your expertise with BOTH PSE & photoshop. Over the last several years, I have been dealing with major health issues but am still holding onto my dream of making a living with digital art. I have tried to keep track of the HiddenPower forums and got to this one from the
http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/hidden ... ments.html
thread. Because of my health & other obligations, learning PSE has been a slow process for me- but I sure hope that PSE layer forums are around when I get there and that you Richard, keep up the faith and know that there are so, so many that appreciate and admire the hard, thorough and honest work you do. Please hang in there- we need u!

Many Blessings

[MichelB]

Hi, Cybersparkle!

Many Elements users who have already read and practised the hiddenelements books for PSE4 wonder if the layer book is a good investment for them, and if the specificities of CS are not a real drawback. I suppose many beginners or average users will think the book is too difficult for them, handles too much features missing in Elements or that the many small differences in the interface will make it difficult to transpose in Elements. On the other hand, there is a possibility that CS users may be unhappy to see that such a book can be as useful to 'simple' Elements users; that's probably this kind of market segmenting which prevent publishers to allow an Element or a common CS/Element version of the layer book.

The layer book is said to target intermediate to advanced users. It would be much better to say it targets 'serious-minded' users, whether near-beginners or already advanced retouchers. It's not a collection of tricks and effects based on layers. Following Richard's credo that you should master only the really useful tools to achieve your goal, it is not a layer encyclopedia. It is an editing course, taking you by the hand, step by step. Everything is precise, clear, carefully worded and illustrated. You have to be patient and practice, you don't need to be an advanced user.

I have been surprised that most of the layers book is applicable to Elements. Not that there is much more than in the hiddenelements book for PSE4, but there has been a tremendous improvement in pedagogy and illustration. So what may be the problems for Elements users?
- you can skip the 'blend if' section. Of course, rather than skipping it, it would be replaced by a few developments to replace it by combinations of blend modes and masks.
- The options for grouping layers are missing. I am sure Richard could suggest good practices to work with the available tools in Elements.
- Even most of the final exercice can be done in Elements with workarounds
- Of course, you'll need at least the free hiddenpower tools for your Elements version...
- Lastly, I must say the difference of tools interface between CS and PSE makes it sometimes difficult to follow the exercices step by step.

So, I think this forum may help:
- in evaluating the expectations and needs of 'serious-minded' Elements Users
- in showing workarounds for the missing CS tools such as 'blend if' or 'layer grouping'

[cybersparkle]

Thanks Michel!

I have the Layers book on my amazon wishlist and really look forward to getting into and participating in the forum. I'm sure that once people from
http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/ and
http://www.photoshopcreativeelements.co ... 5b024c3347
start reading the book, lots of discussion will be generated.

Many Blessings

[Richard Lynch]

It would be much better to say it targets 'serious-minded' users

I like the idea, Michel, as the publishers have always pushed the beginner, intermediate, advanced, expert agenda. "serious minded" is more a tone that can address really any level of user so long as they aren't looking for the quick fix, the tricks, or push-button results.

I invite any specific questions about the text and techniques for work-arounds. Few things may be insurmountable for Elements users. I have some Blend If tools for Elements I've just not yet made available...and honestly sets of things hanging in a dry locker somewhere that I just need to fish out and write some documentation for. The clincher is, I have so many hours in a day...and so many opportunities. I could do a lot more for the elements community when I see I have time and they have interest. I was fighting for several years to get noticed, and people kept 'borrowing' my ideas and redistributing them, putting my books up on the internet for free...it just ended up not being worth the effort. I hope centralizing some discussion here might bring together enough serious-minded Elements users that I can justify putting time into it again.

A layers book for Elements is not out of the question. And I think I can do for serious-minded Elements users what few can. Not trying to boast there, just looking at expertise and my knowledge of extending what the program can do.

Perhaps Blend If is a great place to start...

[MichelB]

Perhaps Blend If is a great place to start...

I fully agree with this choice. My education was deeply influenced by René Descartes, the French philosopher who wrote the 'Discours de la méthode'. Dividing a complex problem into smaller parts you can solve more easily individually is a favorite of mine... And 'blend if' is typically a complex problem in that it involves two actions. One is the usual blend option, the other 'if' is a condition telling which pixels should be affected by the blend, and in which proportion. I must admit this is a CS feature I'd like because it is powerful and 'smart'. This kind of dual action can perhaps been compared to the hue/sat adjustment, which enables modifying color, saturation and lightness while targeting given hues.

What I have learned from the book and personal experience, is that it is capital to be able to target your corrections while being able to select areas based on image properties: color (hue, saturation) or tones (highlights, midtones and shadows). That shows in your choice of additional tools for Elements.

My own way of dealing with 'blend if' situation is to use masks (luminosity or color based) to split the effect in two parts, the mask playing the part of the 'if' condition. The creation of the maks often implies blend modes... and my favorite adjustment is often a gradient map adjustment layer to target tones, or one of your tools to play with channels.

To stay practical, I would suggest the blending of two pictures to deal with very high contrast situations or pictures where you have two distinct types of lighting (tungsten and daylight for example).

[captures]

I just obtained your Layers book after I inquired as to its effectiveness for help in taking your class on-line. I have just completed the first chapter... and yes, I am just a beginner - as far as layers is concerned. I see that I am going to be challenged. As I read some of the posts on this forum, I wondered about another possibility. Would it be possible to provide a supplement to your Layers book that would have key interpretations for Elements users. I appreciate the free tools and have already seen how they will be helpful. Thank you for your clarity of communication.

[Richard Lynch]

I'd be glad to answer whatever questions you have about equivalents in Elements. Going through and listing as you suggest is a good idea, but it would be a lot of work to take on that I'm not sure would be widely used. I'd rather hear the issue first. OK?